Professional Fighters League (PFL) has made an incredible amount of noise in a short space of time. Between hosting the MMA exploits of boxing legend Claressa Shields, signing Jake Paul and launching their specialised regional PFL Europe promotion, the new kids on the block are making a global impact. With the news of a landmark deal to sign former UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou, PFL has been the talk of the sports world.
Ex-UFC legend and Head of Fighter Operations for PFL Europe, Dan Hardy, has seen this growth at close quarters. The Sportsman caught up with ‘The Outlaw’ to discuss the rise of the PFL, the possibility of a certain ‘Gypsy King’ making his presence felt and the blockbuster signing of Ngannou.
Talk to me about your role as Head of Fighter operations at PFL Europe
I'm still being integrated into the job. PFL have got a really good matchmaking team with Greg Savage, and Eduardo (Cunha Lima) and of course Ray Sefo, the big boss. But the plan is for me to take over all of the fighter operations for Europe from 2024 onwards.
Currently, I'm working alongside the matchmaking team helping them out with the Berlin card. I’m putting some of the undercard fights together and helping with the order of the card, speaking to fighters, helping them understand what's expected of them fight week.
When I'm out in Berlin, I'll be there overseeing all of fight week. From the interviews to the shorts and glove fitting, I'll be across everything. Then we've got Paris and Dublin after that, where I'll be doing the same thing. Then from 2024 onwards, I'll be selecting the weight classes and picking the fighters and making the matches myself along with the team that I'm going to be building around me. Basically trying to find the best MMA fighters across Europe, and bringing them to the PFL cage to fight for the fans.
What advantages does being a former fighter yourself give you when executing this role?
I know what it's like to be in there up against not only my opponent, but the organisation. That's not a pleasant thing to feel. I've fought for what I would consider to be my home organisations, like Cage Warriors. But I've also travelled.
I fought in Cage Force in Japan against Japanese fighters. I didn't feel like the crowd or the promotion were on my side. It was not a pleasant experience for me and I would never want any of the fighters on the roster to feel like the PFL wasn't on their side. I want to create a fair playing field for everyone to show their best. The best person wins and moves forward.
I also know what styles work well against other styles. I can see fighters that would be able to test other fighters. We've got some really exciting prospects on our roster in Europe, but they need to be tested. We need to make sure that they're ready for the global roster. So it's about finding the right opponents to push them in different areas of their game.
What was your first reaction to the Francis Ngannou signing?
I'm excited at the possibilities. I had a feeling that he was going to find his way to the PFL but of course there were headlines around different promotions having conversations with him and not getting anywhere. When the news finally broke I was just pleased that he had found a home and we were going to see him fight again. If you look into what his role is going to be, taking over PFL Africa and setting that up. It’s going to be amazing and there’s going to be so many athletes that will be coming into the global roster from there. He'll have a huge impact.
He's going to be able to box as well which is a lot of fun. There's also a conversation about boxers crossing over to do either MMA fights against him or hybrid rules fights. Things that other promotions wouldn't have been open to within Ngannou on their roster. I feel like lots and lots of doors are open and possibilities are on the table within partnering with the PFL.
Who would you wanna see Ngannou fight if you were the matchmaker picking his debut opponent?
I think there are a few options. There are other heavyweights out there in other promotions. Over in ONE Championship we've got Arjan Singh Bhullar and Anatoliy Malykhin who would be great fights. Ryan Bader over in Bellator I think could be an interesting one. Someone else that’s very athletic and brings speed and wrestling ability to the division.
But Ante Delija feels like a very good pick as well. We've got some good heavyweights, (Bruno) Cappelozza. There are good heavyweights on the PFL roster right now that I feel, with maybe another two or three fights, they'll be in a position to step forward.
Ultimately, I want to see Tyson Fury step into Mixed Martial Arts and put some four ounce gloves on. I do feel like he could be tempted to do it. That's really what I would like to see.
How do you think Tyson Fury would get on in MMA? Obviously he’s a tremendous boxer and a big puncher, but wrestling and jiu-jitsu are a world away from that. Do you think he’d take to those areas of the game?
I think of all the boxers in boxing right now, especially at the elite level, I feel like he would be one of the few that would transition quite well. We know that (lightweight superstar Vasiliy) Lomachenko can wrestle. Ngannou points out that Dillian Whyte used to be a kickboxer as well so there are other skills in people's arsenal.
Floyd Mayweather is a boxer first and a fighter second. Tyson Fury is a fighter first and a boxer second. Boxing is the place where he goes to fight, if that makes sense. I feel like if you take some rules away from him and go, “You can grab him around the head to punch him, or you can grab him around the head to knee him in the gut. You can kick him in the leg. If you end up in top position, you could punch him in the face and the referee is not going to give him a standing count.” All of these things play to Fury’s strengths as a fighter. Whereas if you put other boxers in that situation, I feel like it starts to work against them. I got to work with John Fury a few times and he's a big, scary individual. He's got a very “fighting man” presence about him that I know Tyson Fury has as well. So maybe that's what’s swayed me. I think he'd do well.
Coming back to the Ngannou signing, do you think this sort of thing was coming? A big UFC name switching over the PFL in their prime?
Yeah, absolutely. It was going to be someone. It was always going to take a lot of guts to be the first person over the wall. That man's crossed oceans to create opportunities for himself. If anybody was going to do it he was going to be the person. It took a lot of courage to take the risks that he did and step into free agency. It's not like he had a deal on the table before he left the UFC.
It took a huge belief in himself to do that. But I think now he's done it, I feel like there's going to be a lot of other fighters crossing over. Especially if you take into consideration that there's a $2 million purse for his opponent, which is not something that you're going to get in the UFC, even if you fight (heavyweight champion) Jon Jones.
If you're a young prospect and you step into the PFL and you fight Ngannou you're going to make a big chunk of cash straight away. Win or lose, it doesn't matter because that money goes in your pocket. That would save you having five fights for another organisation.
I feel like the moves that he's made and the opportunity that he's created for his opponent is really the thing that's going to change the game. I think over the next three or four years, we're going to see a bit more of a balancing of the talent in Mixed Martial Arts across not even just the UFC and PFL. I'm hoping that other organisations are able to pick up some talent as well and the market really starts to thrive.
Did you feel fairly compensated in UFC considering you headlined pay-per-views and were a big reason for the popularity of the company in the UK?
No, but this is why I probably wasn't the ideal person to take on the UFC when it comes to fight purses. I was never really that bothered. I had two jobs until I signed my UFC contract. I was getting anywhere between £150 and £300 pounds for a fight before I signed with the UFC.
My first UFC contract was $3,000 plus $3,000. Then you take the tax out of it, and you pay your coaches and you end up with nothing. You rely a lot of the time on sponsors. We had sponsors in the early days, which made life a lot easier. If I'd not had sponsors when I fought GSP (UFC legend Georges St-Pierre) I’d have pocketed about $5,000. But my sponsors were able to quadruple that.
GSP got a few million for that fight, he told me afterwards because I went to train with him. I know, he spent $250,000 on his training camp. That was 10 times what I was getting paid to show up. I fought in the co-main event at the O2 Arena for five and five. But for me, it was about being there.
When they sent the contract through about being in the UFC video game, we were getting $1,500 to sign the contract. But I'm like, “I'm gonna be in a video game. That's awesome!”. To be in a video game and on a poster in Times Square; that was almost enough compensation for me. I just wanted the recognition as an athlete.
I wouldn't want any more money than what I got. Let me make that clear. I signed the contract and I fought for what I got paid. I was happy with that at the time. But when I see fighters on the UFC London cards now not making much more than I was back in 2008, something needs to change. These fighters need money in their pocket so they can keep perpetuating MMA. We don't want them to have a regular job when they retire. We want them to open gyms and start coaching the next generation. And that takes some money.
Do you wish PFL had been an option in your own career?
100%. If you go back to 2005, I wanted it to fight in (legendary Japanese organisation) PRIDE. That was my goal. I even convinced Cage Warriors to introduce a 73 kilo weight class because PRIDE had one. I fought in a tournament in Holland and the winner went through to fight in PRIDE. I lost the decision to the guy that ended up fighting Takanori Gomi. I was that close to being a PRIDE fighter. That's one thing that always upset me a little bit. I wanted to fight in Japan in PRIDE. I felt like that was the pinnacle of Mixed Martial Arts at the time. Saitama Super Arena with 90,000 people in it. Come on!
But PRIDE was purchased. That option was taken off the table. Same with EliteXC, StrikeForce and WEC. These companies were consumed so everything, the pinnacle of the sport was all in one direction. It was all UFC. There are good things about that as well. We get to see the best fight the best. But the downside is that the best are getting paid terrible money because the sport has been controlled. I think it's really healthy that we're having other options come to the forefront now. There are a lot of good organisations that are doing well and paying good money. That's what we need to make the sport a healthier place for the athletes.
Ngannou isn’t the only big signing PFL has made recently. Lewis McGrillen’s multi-fight deal with PFL Europe was announced recently. What will Lewis bring to the company?
The sky's the limit for this kid. Just being in a room with him, he's got a presence. He's a fiery, aggressive individual. I was fascinated to watch him all the way through fight week in Newcastle because he was chomping at the bit every moment of the day. He couldn't wait to get in there. It's very rare you see that kind of energy. He was laser-focused like he was going to war.
At the moment as a pro he's undefeated and he's got a wicked left hand. He's putting people away cleanly with it. But you go back to his amateur career when he was taking people down and ground-and-pounding them, you realise there are more facets to his game that we've not seen yet. I'm very excited to see where he goes from here.
Decorated kickboxer and UFC target Cedric Doumbe also signed recently. What can fans expect from Doumbe?
I feel like it's thrown around way too much to call somebody an elite striker. But Cedric Doumbe is one of a handful of fighters that sit in that category. I'm always excited when someone that's such a specialist is crossing over to Mixed Martial Arts. So far we've seen his striking has done really well. He's able to manage range much better than I expected, he's picking his shots much cleaner in the smaller gloves as well. He's doing really good work to the body as well.
I think he's realised that the striking in Mixed Martial Arts is slightly different, but he's already already begun to adapt to it. And you know, with his experience in kickboxing, a 75-7-1 record. It's incredible. Now he’s at the beginning of his MMA career with plenty of time to to rival his kickboxing record as far as achievements and World Championships go. He’s at the beginning of a second career here.
Finally, where do you think PFL and PFL Europe are going to be as an organisation in two years time?
In PFL Europe, we've got four weight classes that we're focusing on. I would like to add a weight class or two in the next two or three years. I think globally, they'll be adding more weight classes as well. We've not had middleweight for a few years, we could add that back in certainly. I'm tempted to do some heavyweights next year, because we've got Ngannou now. There are some good heavyweights in Europe.
There's so many fighters ready to compete and so many fans that want these fights. We just need to keep raising our game every year. I think that PFL year will be in a very, very strong position with more weight classes, and more shows. Six, eight, twelve shows a year. I would imagine that we're going to have some other regions that have already got their own league set up ready to feed into the global bracket. The likes of Africa, or the Middle East or South America, Oceania. There are lots of different areas of the world that PFL will be moving into. I'm excited to see where it takes us but I think there'll be a lot of growth and a lot of opportunities presented.
*18+ | BeGambleAware | Odds Subject To Change
